Philosopher Laureate of the Netherlands Marli Huijer in conversation with philosopher, publicist and musician Frank Meester . Together, they wrote the book 'Goldmine of Thinking. Philosophy in Professional Practice', in which they show that both ancient and recent philosophical ideas are of great value for daily professional practice and topicality. Philosopher and physician Marli Huijer is René Gude's successor as Denker des Vaderlands (Philosopher Laureate of the Netherlands). She is not a 'study-room scholar', although she has written several books, such as the recent 'Rhythm and Discipline'. She calls herself not a counter-, not a co-thinker, but an in-between thinker; she wants the voices of all kinds of different people to be heard. Huijer is professor of Philosophy of Culture, Politics and Religion at the Faculty of Philosophy, Erasmus University Rotterdam. Her research focuses on the philosophy of people and culture. She is particularly interested in the question of how people arrive at orderings.